(no subject)

[timesbureaucrat]

On the top floors of this resort, in the conference rooms and penthouse suites, even now the politicians and diplomats are discussing whether or not they'd like to go gallivanting around our universes, and we aren't allowed even a cursory peep at what they're talking about, much less a formal seat at the table.

[Small grenade of political discontent lobbed, Narvin switches topic.]

Also, I want to make it known preemptively that yes, I am a technician and computer specialist, but no, I will not fix your personal computer, communicator, speeder, spawner, or whatever else you brought with you. I'm a researcher, not a common mechanic. [Actually, he might fix your computer, if he likes you. But Narvin doesn't like many people as a general rule. He also might offer to repair it if he thinks that you might have interesting files on your files that he might hack, but that's another matter.]

Comments

[timesbureaucrat]

And I'll happily give them money or emeralds or whatever sort of recompense they deserve for their efforts. It is society's duty to see to it that they are fully provided for as they perform their essential, if dull, tasks. [There's a thick streak of socialism in Gallifrey's post-scarcity economics.]

So long as I myself don't have to do those tasks.

[vengeance_driven]

I lived on a farm growing up. We grew food for people to eat.

The government took our money to make nice buildings, that politicians got to live in. Supposedly we were being provided for, but only enough for a roof. No electricity. No good medicine. Just enough things to keep us alive for more work.

And then the oldest politician died and everyone was angry about how they had to live and blamed each other and started killing each other.

[That's about the nicest way he could put his thoughts but really he doesn't like any form of government. He thinks they're all terrible.]

[timesbureaucrat]

Clearly your government wasn't very good at its job.

[vengeance_driven]

No government is great at its job. Not even yours, or you would not think of gritty work as common, just as something hard for you to do.

[timesbureaucrat]

Total equality for all? It isn't very feasible. To have a society is to have a hierarchy. But my government ensures that there is no poverty, no homelessness, no hunger. [Except when they were fighting a civil war. That wasn't a shining moment of civilization.]

[vengeance_driven]

Ah, but that is the goal with socialism. But it does not happen. Then you are given capitalism, democracy, and power imbalance is just as great. Equality may not be feasible but fair treatment is what people want, and "common" is not fair treatment.

How many wars do you fight with other people? Or find enemies to hate? Do groups of you hate each other? The wrong leader goes away from "good" government and everyone claws at each other's throats.

[timesbureaucrat]

We keep ourselves to ourselves. We don't wage war with the outside races. [They just send CIA teams to fiddle with their society instead.]

We did recently have some...internal fighting...[Civil war, Narvin, civil war.]...but those were rather extraordinary circumstances that broke a peace that had lasted for eons.

[vengeance_driven]

I am so very sure it was just a minor thing.

[He smells bullshit. All of the bullshit.]

[timesbureaucrat]

It was dealt with.

[Which is not at all an answer to the question of "minor or not minor."]

[vengeance_driven]

I have a feeling if I ask how, I get only answers that make the side you like look good. So I'll just leave it at that.

[Pah, government is stupid. This is why he's okay wandering most of the time.]

[timesbureaucrat]

Actually, I didn't particularly like either side. But one leader was evil and corrupt, the other was merely misguided. [In Narvin's opinion.] So the moral choice seemed clear.

Or as clear as it could ever be in a civil war. [Where most of the actual soldiers fighting and dying on both sides were neither evil nor misguided, just Gallifreyans, his fellow citizens, doing what they were ordered.]

[vengeance_driven]

I don't think any choice is right in a civil war. You are still fighting with your neighbors, and even generations later you will have lost their trust.

[Civil wars aren't minor things, either.]

[timesbureaucrat]

[Narvin usually tries not to think about the civil war, using the typical Time Lord method of dealing with uncomfortable issues--repress them and hope they go away.

This is the most he's talked about it since the war ended, and it makes him uncomfortable.]

Perhaps. But if Pandora had won, she would have turned all our resources into military conquest and made every citizen her canon fodder. If I have to kill a few innocent soldiers to keep the whole planet from being dragged into never-ending war, it's a fair price and I'm willing to pay it.

Besides, I never had the trust of my neighbours to begin with.

[vengeance_driven]

[As a man that is incredibly bitter about his past but has his own tendency to flail violence around, he silently vows to run over Narvin next time he has the opportunity. It's good there's no one around or there'd be a stray thought he wouldn't want wandering off into someone else's head. Woops.]

I'm sure those soldiers were very glad that you were willing to sacrifice their lives.

[timesbureaucrat]

And willing to sacrifice my own life at their hands if it came to that. They made their choice and I made mine. It wasn't as if anyone could have stayed impartial civilians. Killing each other was inevitable. Romana at least attempted to keep the casualties low. Pandora had no such qualms or concerns.

[vengeance_driven]

Look, friend, all I hear is that you not only think you're better, that if it were a fight you'd throw other people's lives away before yours. This Romana lady? Maybe not so bad as far as leaders go. I have good luck with people with "Roman" in their name, but meat for the grinder is what it is, man. Don't try to make a shitty thing sound like a proud one.

[timesbureaucrat]

If you were in a fight, wouldn't you rather kill than be killed? I won't apologize for surviving.

scrollover translation

[vengeance_driven]

What?

Wait.

[Niko had been referring to the talk of sacrificing the lives of innocent soldiers and calling people commoners. And trying to lighten up aspects of a war, so he doesn't even know where Narvin wandered off there. So he is listening to this whole conversation again, in Serbian, just to be absolutely sure he didn't lose something somewhere.]

[Man, his English translated back? He really needs to work on his English grammar. Okay, whatever. He think he has it now.]

What? That wasn't what I was saying. Људи не значи много за вас, јер као присталица владе они губе вредност због успеха владе. Али ви не можете имати владу без људи да владају, а ако они сацрафице своје животе нису твоје да сацрафице.

[And suddenly somewhere on the other end he's cracking a hard, mean grin.]

Shit. Technicians must have a lot more responsibility on your planet, ah? [That laugh that follows means he calls bullshit.]

[timesbureaucrat]

I simply believe that the needs of the community as a whole are more important than the needs of an individual.

[Narvin tenses. Damn. In the uncomfortable talk of civil war, he let himself slip.]

You know how war is. Suddenly shoemakers end up officers, that sort of thing.

[vengeance_driven]

Yes, they do.

[He doesn't think that's the case here, between the interest in politics, talk of his president, and mention of sacrifice.]

Sometimes children do, too. [He never really hides that part of his history with the war. He was pretty young when he started to fight, barely more than a boy. And after seeing his friends die around him?] So I am skeptical now.

[timesbureaucrat]

[Niko's comment brings to Narvin's mind the bodies of students mangled and twisted in the wake of a bomb. His voice was low.]

We tried to keep the children safe and out of harm's way.

["Tried" being the key word there.]

[vengeance_driven]

That is what most leaders say.

I have no doubt at least half of them mean it.

[But if it is in their country or on their world he guesses? they're always involved.]

[timesbureaucrat]

Romana meant it.

[First name terms with the President.]